Warning: Below you will find spoilers for the first four episodes of Season 21 of “The Bachelorette.”
Thursday’s episode of “The Viall Files” had a double tie with Wisconsin and Bachelor Nation.
Former franchise star Nick Viall — born in Wisconsin and graduated from the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee — interviewed current “Bachelorette“Jenn Tran, a UW-Madison alum.
Viall immediately called this week’s episode of “Bachelorette” “the most insane” he can remember (if you missed all the insane episodes, here’s a recap).
For their in-depth, nearly hour-long conversation, the two reality TV stars were joined by “Viall Files” co-hosts Natalie Joy, Viall’s wife, and Ciara Robinson.
What’s the hardest thing for Tran to watch so far this season? What’s with her ex Matt showing up out of nowhere? And what does her life look like after the show?
Tran answered all of these questions and more in the podcast. Here are eight takeaways from it and how you can tune in:
1. What was the hardest thing about watching ‘The Bachelorette’ Jenn Tran? And, her thoughts on Sam M.
Tran said she feels like she’s looking at her “evil twin” for some of the decisions she’s made on the show and the things she’s let go of. She said she’s realized how much of a people-pleaser she is, which is hard for her to watch.
“I always want to make other people happy,” Tran said on “The Viall Files.” “I think when I look back on it, I realize that maybe it wasn’t the best emotion to portray at that moment. And I’m like, ‘Okay, I should have let my smiley-face guard down and just shown how I felt.'”
Viall asked for an example of her presenting herself one way but feeling another. If you watched “Bachelorette” on Monday, this is the one you’re thinking of.
Sam M. and Tran went on a solo date to the Sky Tower in New Zealand. This tower is approximately 300 meters high and offers a 360-degree panoramic view of up to 80 kilometers in every direction.
They were given the opportunity to do the Skyjump there, which is essentially a wire base jump from 629 feet in the air. Despite Tran having a fear of heights and repeatedly trying to express this to her date, Sam M. persisted until she was in tears.
Did she think the situation was accurately portrayed? Yes, yes she did.
“You could tell I was trying to make a joke out of it, but I also feel extremely uncomfortable up there,” Tran told the podcast hosts. “And I wish I would have just let my guard down and cried.”
“I wanted to crawl out of my skin there,” she added.
Later in the podcast, she shared that she often tries to cope with the situation by smiling and laughing.
Viall supported her and said her discomfort used to be clear. The only one who didn’t get it was Sam M.
This was the second week in a row that Sam M. didn’t seem to pick up on Tran’s cues, Viall said, which was “alarming.”
“I feel like you’re almost being too hard on yourself,” Viall told her. “Your discomfort was obvious. And it’s like it’s people’s job to pick up on cues.”
Sam M. would later bring up how he treats Tran one way and some guys another. It’s notable that he can’t stop himself from getting into fights with Devin.
“I think it’s very clear that Sam M. is very different with the boys than he is with me,” Tran said. “Very shocked to see that behavior.”
Viall asked Tran the million dollar question: What does she see in him?
“I will say that at the point where we’re at in the season, I think I just have so much hope for the connection because he was my first impression, Rose,” she said. “And I kind of had a gut feeling.”
Is there anything Tran wanted to say in Sam M.’s defense, Viall asked. Not really.
“I don’t think anyone can edit you in a way that you’re not already doing,” Tran said. “Nobody’s going to put words in your mouth. They’re yours and you have to take responsibility for them.”
The quality that most attracts her to Sam M. at that point in the series is the “mysterious” puzzle she is trying to solve.
2. Who did ‘The Bachelorette’ Jenn Tran have the strongest connection with at this point in the season?
Ooo, Sam M. is not going to like this. Devin was her strongest connection four episodes into the season, Tran told the hosts.
During their one-on-one date on Monday, Tran and Devin got to experience Māori culture together. Tran candidly told her date about her own Vietnamese traditions, which he supported.
What viewers didn’t get to see, Tran revealed in the podcast, was that the two also shared a meal together that was repeatedly interrupted by dogs. She described it as “TV magic” and “really, really hilarious.”
Later that evening, a fragile bond developed between the two, due to their similar and difficult upbringings.
Devin went into the date thinking he liked Tran, but after their special time together that day, he admitted he was in love with her.
“I couldn’t be happier. And I feel so hopeful,” Tran said in a confessional. “I think he’s someone who could very well be my future fiancé.”
What Tran found most attractive about Devin at the time was their emotional connection and the fact that they could relate to each other and feel empathy for each other, she said in “The Viall Files.”
“We love Devin,” Viall said. “We really enjoyed him.”
3. “We hate a lot of you men,” Nick Viall told “The Bachelorette” Jenn Tran. Why?
Tran admitted that she didn’t realize how mean the men were until she rewatched the series, but she was still curious as to why Viall hated her men.
“I just have a hard time seeing a connection that’s worth your time,” Viall told Tran. “And I feel like it’s mostly their fault. Or completely their fault.”
The exception, according to Viall: Jonathon. Natalie went on to say that they also love Devin and Marcus, but that they have a hard time with Thomas.
Later, Nick and Natalie raved about how Jonathon brought lacrosse gear so he and Tran could play together during their alone time on Monday’s episode. Tran and Jonathon both played the sport in college.
4. What’s up with ‘The Bachelorette’ Jenn Tran’s ex Matt? And were they ever in love like he said?
On this week’s episode of “The Bachelorette,” Tran’s ex Matt flew to New Zealand at his own expense to tell Tran that he still loves her. Tran was completely shocked.
“When I first saw him, I thought to myself, ‘Wow, what a friendly face. I’m so excited. He must be here to give me advice or something,'” Tran told “The Viall Files.” “Very, very quickly I thought, ‘This guy is not here to give me advice.'”
Well, that’s for sure. Here’s what he said to her on the show: “I know this isn’t the first time I’ve said this, and I really hope it’s not the last time, but I really love you.”
Her answer? “Matthew!”
In the podcast, Tran revealed that she dated Matt three years ago. After he ended things, they remained friendly and would occasionally eat together when Tran visited Boston, where her family lives.
After Tran’s time on “The Bachelor,” she and Matt started talking a lot, she said. They lived so far away and she was seeing other people, so “there was nothing there,” Tran said.
If they were friends, Viall asked, did she see him in a romantic light? No, she said she just found him comfortable and familiar.
From their conversation on the show, it seemed like the two were planning to travel to Colombia together for two weddings. Instead, Matt waved them both off and flew to Tran. Why? He said he couldn’t attend the festivities without her.
What was that all about? Matt needed a plus one for a couple of weddings in Columbia and invited her, Tran explained in the podcast.
Though she initially agreed, she had to back out of “The Bachelorette.” Matt was supportive, she said, and he didn’t express his love or say — even jokingly — that he would come to the taping.
While Viall was a fan of Matt’s grand gesture of flying across the world to her, he hated the “I love you” part, which he thought was “performative,” while the rest of his story felt sincere.
“We were in love — and I think a part of us will always be in love,” Matt said in a clip on “The Bachelorette.”
Not according to Tran. “We were never in love,” Tran told “The Viall Files.” She said they only dated for three months.
Viall asked if Matt could have shown up for the fame.
Since he had a TikTok following, the thought of “sure” crossed her mind. But she didn’t think he would fly all the way to New Zealand for that.
She said he was a good friend, that she knew his family very well and that they got along very well.
5. When did Jenn Tran date her “toxic” ex that she mentions on ‘The Bachelorette’?
They dated for two years, Tran told “The Viall Files.”
The reason for their breakup was that he still hadn’t told his mother about her, a year after the start of their relationship.
Even though she should have broken it off with him, she said, he was the one who ended it. But in the end, she was glad, because she didn’t know if she would have done that in the state of mind she was in at the time.
6. During a game, ‘The Bachelorette’ Jenn Tran reveals what engaged life would be like with multiple candidates
Viall played a game with Tran: What would an engaged life look like with (insert participant’s name here).
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With Marcus: “Very adventurous” with them skydiving and rock climbing together, Tran said. They would likely live in Boston, since they both lived there before, and he would be pursuing his dream of becoming an astronaut.
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With Devin: “We’d laugh a lot,” Tran said. They might move to California, since his father lives there. And he would continue to own a trucking company.
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With Jonathon: They lived in San Diego, played lacrosse on weekends, and taught their children—one of whom might have been named Jonathon Jr.—the sport.
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With Spencer: They would live in Texas, where he lives, and they would have lots of dogs because he’s a pet portrait entrepreneur. He would put her seatbelt on for her on every date (like he did on their helicopter date in week 3). “I imagine us sitting in a grassy field with lots of puppies the whole time,” she said.
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With Matt: They would live in Boston, hang out with his famous dachshund, and go to the beach. They would also travel and visit his homes in New Hampshire and Florida.
Viall also had Tran compare a superlative to the candidate who best fit:
7. How does Jenn Tran feel after the show on ‘The Bachelorette’?
“I’m very happy with how things turned out and I didn’t think it could have turned out any differently,” Tran told the podcast hosts.
8. What will Jenn Tran’s life look like after the show on ‘The Bachelorette’?
Tran plans to return to medical school in January, resume her “normal” life and focus on social media in addition to her work, she said in the podcast.
She is thinking about becoming an emergency room assistant because she is very cheerful, needs something different every second and performs well under pressure.
How to Listen to ‘The Viall Files’
The interview with Tran in “The Viall Files” can be viewed at youtube.com/watch?v=c9m-joucUuI&t=3460s.
And you can listen to them wherever you get your podcasts, like on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
How to Watch Jenn Tran’s Season 21 of ‘The Bachelorette’
“The Bachelorette” Season 21 airs at 7:00 p.m. CT on Mondays on ABC. It will stream the following day on Hulu.
This article originally appeared on Milwaukee Journal Sentinel: Viall Files Nick Interviews Bachelorette Jenn Tran About Sam, Ex Matt
