On this “Face the Nation” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Sen. Rand Paul, Republican of Kentucky
- Sen. Tammy Duckworth, Democrat of Illinois
- Sen. Chris Van Hollen, Democrat of Maryland
- Ret. Lt. Gen. H.R. McMaster
- Rep.-elect Sarah McBride, Democrat of Delaware
Click here to browse full transcripts of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: President-elect Trump makes a flurry of picks for top health and finance jobs. Will they pass muster with the Republican-controlled Senate?
The Trump transition team unveiled almost a dozen people selected to fill key Cabinet and White House roles. And as would-be nominees are whisked through Capitol Hill to meet with senators, there’s already been one major withdrawal, a quick replacement, and renewed scrutiny on some of the more controversial national security picks.
We will talk with two key senators, Republican Rand Paul and Democrat Tammy Duckworth. They will be questioning the president-elect’s choices on health, national security and more.
One of Trump’s national security advisers from his first term, retired Army Lieutenant General H.R. McMaster, will also weigh in.
Plus: As the conflict between Israel-Hamas and Hezbollah continues to rage, when can we expect a cease-fire? We will ask Maryland Senator Chris Van Hollen, who has called President Biden’s handling of Israel shameful and a policy failure.
Finally, we will hear from representative-elect Sarah McBride on the challenges and opportunities facing her as she prepares to take office as the first openly transgender member of Congress.
It’s all just ahead on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.
As we begin this holiday week, Americans are preparing to gather to give thanks for what has been and contemplate what’s to come. Our latest CBS News poll shows that 59 percent of Americans approve of how president-elect Donald Trump is handling the presidential transition.
Trump has kept up a steady drumbeat of staffing announcements from his Mar- a-Lago resort in Palm Beach, Florida.
And that is where we find our Nikole Killion this morning with the latest.
(Begin VT)
NIKOLE KILLION (voice-over): After Saturday lunch with one of the senators who will vote on his Cabinet picks, president-elect Donald Trump announced former domestic policy adviser Brooke Rollins for agriculture secretary.
One of his most highly anticipated selections was Scott Bessent for Treasury. If confirmed, the 62-year-old investor would be the first openly gay secretary to lead it and responsible for quarterbacking Mr. Trump’s proposed policies on taxes and tariffs.
DONALD TRUMP (Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. President-Elect): The most beautiful word in the dictionary is tariff.
NIKOLE KILLION: A new CBS News poll shows a majority of Americans support imposing tariffs on imported goods, and more have an optimistic view of the economy since the election.
Mr. Trump selected a pair of doctors to lead health agencies. Former Congressman David Weldon has promoted debunked anti-vaccine views and is being tapped to lead the Centers for Disease Control. Food and Drug Administration pick Martin Makary critiqued vaccine mandates during the COVID pandemic.
And Project 2025 architect Russ Vought plans to reprise his role as White House budget director, despite Trump’s disavowal of the conservative policy blueprint.
PRESIDENT-ELECT DONALD TRUMP: I have nothing to do with Project 2025.
NIKOLE KILLION: Our polling also finds many of the president-elect’s well- known designees have more support than opposition, including Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Tulsi Gabbard, and Pete Hegseth.
The former FOX News host picked to lead the Pentagon is drawing scrutiny over allegations of sexual assault in a 2017 police report.
Did you sexually assault a woman in Monterey, California?
PETE HEGSETH (U.S. Defense Secretary Nominee): I have – as far as the media is concerned, I will keep this very simple. The matter was fully investigated. And I was completely cleared. And that’s where I’m going to leave it.
(End VT)
NIKOLE KILLION: While president-elect Trump has filled out most of his Cabinet, a few economic positions remain up for grabs, including U.S. trade representative and small business administrator – Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s Nikole Killion in West Palm Beach, Florida.
We go now to Kentucky Republican Senator Rand Paul. He is set to chair the Homeland Security Committee next year, and he sits on the Health Committee.
Welcome back to Face the Nation, Senator.
SENATOR RAND PAUL (R-Kentucky): Good morning. Thanks for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you are a doctor by training.
I want to ask you about some of these health picks. I know that you personally said that you have vaccinated all of your children, but vaccination rates in this country, as you know, are on the decline.
Are you at all concerned that elevating individuals who have been publicly critical of some particular vaccines, RFK Jr. at HHS secretary, Dave Weldon to CDC director, that any of that will erode trust in vaccination?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: You know, I think all of us can agree that there’s an increase of vaccine hesitancy.
I think it comes from people not believing what the government is telling them. The fact that the CDC committee for vaccines and the FDA committee for vaccines said for COVID boosters that you should take a booster if you’re over 65, and yet the Biden administration and Rochelle Walensky actually politicized that, didn’t follow the signs and said you should boost your 6-month-old, and the American public is rejecting this.
Only about 20 percent of the American public of all ages is taking the COVID booster, because the government hasn’t been honest with us. That dishonesty has led to vaccine hesitancy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, it’s vaccination rates in other – other vaccines as well, not just COVID vaccines. There’s concern about measles. There are concerns about other…
SENATOR RAND PAUL: Right, but people have to believe it. Exactly.
But people are doubting because they’re being told that. I will give you an example. Look, I think vaccines, smallpox, the story of smallpox vaccine, polio vaccine are some of the most miraculous discoveries in all of medicine. And I’m not against vaccines.
But, like, when my kids were little, the hepatitis B vaccine, they still want to give it to them as a newborn. I just – my baby is new and just, you know, come into the world, and you can see how a lot of reasonable people say, why do I have to do it as a newborn? Could I come back in three months or six months?
So, really, it’s about choice. It’s about getting rid of mandates. It’s about letting people participate, but it’s also about the government being honest. What are the risks and what are the benefits? And they haven’t been honest on COVID, because healthy children do not die from COVID, do not get seriously sick, and there’s no proof that the vaccine has any medical benefit for healthy children.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we want to move on to other topics, sir, but we will continue to cover vaccination in this country.
I think what you said there is that you’re supportive of all those health nominees, from what I heard. You – you have been – I’m sorry. Did you want to say…
SENATOR RAND PAUL: I was just going to say, yes, I am supportive.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: But I wouldn’t describe them as the problem with vaccine hesitancy. I would describe the government misinformation as the problem with vaccine hesitancy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. Messengers matter, though.
But you have raised concerns in your role on Homeland Security about the implementation of some of the promises Donald Trump made on the campaign trail. His mass deportation vow is very popular. Our CBS polling shows 57 percent of voters like the idea, but how it is implemented matters a lot to voters.
The vast majority prefer that federal law enforcement or immigration agencies carry them out. Just 40 percent say the U.S. military should be involved. The stated Trump plan is to use the military, military assets, deputize the National Guard, and have them act as immigration agents. Do you believe that is lawful?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: You know, I’m 100 percent supportive of going after the 15,000 murderers, the 13,000 sexual assault perpetrators, rapists, all these people.
Let’s send them on their way to prison or back home to another prison. So I would say all-points bulletin, all in, but you don’t do it with the Army because it’s illegal. And we’ve – we’ve had a distrust of putting the Army into our streets, because the police have a difficult job, but the police understand the Fourth Amendment. They have to go to judges. They have to get warrants. It has to be specific.
And so I’m for removing these people, but I would do it through the normal process of domestic policing. Now, I would say that the mayor of Denver, if he’s going to resist federal law, which there’s a longstanding history of the supremacy of federal law, if he’s going to resist that, it will go all the way to the Supreme Court.
And I would suspect that he would be removed from office. I don’t know whether or not there’d be a criminal prosecution for someone resisting federal law, but he will lose. And people need to realize that what he is – – what he is offering is a form of insurrection, where the states resist the federal government.
Most people objected to that and rejected that long ago. So I think the mayor of Denver is on the wrong side of history, and, really, I think, will face legal ramifications if he doesn’t obey the federal law.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, just context on those numbers you rattled off in terms of criminals, those numbers from ICE are accurate figures, but they’re over a 40-year period of time.
What we know now about the immigration authorities who would have to be charged with rounding these individuals up, there are just 6,000 agents, 41,000 detention beds to carry out the assignment of rounding up millions of undocumented people, potentially.
How do you suggest they implement it? And if this is a red line for you in terms of using the military, would you vote no on the DHS secretary, Kristi Noem?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: I will not support and will not vote to use the military in our cities. I think it’s a terrible image.
But I will tell you that, just in the last week, with the belief that a new administration will change things, there were four or five criminals arrested in the last week. And what would happen and I think what will happen under Donald Trump’s administration is, I don’t recommend to use the Army, but I would use the FBI, I would use ICE, I would use Border Patrol.
And they have a list now of 15,000. I don’t care if it came in over 40 years or 10 years. If you’ve got a list, you put these people on an all- points bulletin, these are the kind of people that are dangerous and that everybody needs to be the watch on, and they would go out and seek those people.
That – we have about 30,000 very dangerous people already convicted of crimes. That should be the first priority for all of this. Let’s go find those people. But it’s not about detaining them. In all likelihood, they should be going to a jail, either a jail here or in the country they came from.
So I think, if we did that, there will be a lot of unity. If they send the Army into New York, and you have 10,000 troops marching, carrying semiautomatic weapons, I think it’s a terrible image, and I will oppose that. But it’s not that I oppose removing people. I just…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: … object to what has been against the law for over 100 years, and that’s using the Army.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But deputizing the National Guard, that specifically is the proposal. You also oppose that?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: I don’t think it’s the best way to do it. It’s less clear whether that’s legal or illegal. Typically, it has to be done at the behest of the governors.
I still don’t like a militarization of police, whether it’s National Guard or Army. I think there’s a lot of FBI.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: There’s a lot of Border Patrol agents. There’s a better way to do it. And it needs to be individualized.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: That doesn’t mean I’m any less serious about getting it done. It just needs to be done according to the law and consistent with our traditions.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood.
You’ve made clear you are a fiscal conservative. I want to ask you about the choice just made to select hedge fund manager Scott Bessent as the treasury secretary. He had a long financial career. He served as the Chief Investment Officer for George Soros’ funds. He’s been a political donor.
Elon Musk came out publicly against him, calling him business as usual. Do you favor Mr. Bessent in the role as Treasury secretary?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: You know, I have heard good things about him. I haven’t made a decision. I lean towards being supportive.
I don’t like tariffs, but, then again, I don’t like the president promoting tariffs. I think tariffs are a tax on the consumer, and they ignore things like with steel. There are 80 workers working in steel-buying industry for every worker making steel.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: So, yes, you can protect certain industries, but it’s at the expense of other people.
I don’t believe that will be enough for me to want to vote against Bessent, because it’s also the president’s position as well. I will be vocal in saying that I think tariffs are bad and that international trade actually saves every consumer about $7,000 a year. So, everybody in our country is $7,000 richer because of international trade.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: It’s part of one of the booms of postwar and post- Industrial Revolution. This amazing international trade has made us all richer, and we need to talk about the statistics and facts concerning the benefits of trade.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood on the nuances and specifics there, but that is primarily how Donald Trump is promising to pay for all the things he promised on the campaign trail.
As you know, the federal debt is past $36 trillion as of this week. His proposals to lift taxes off of tips, overtime, Medicare, Social Security, give tax credits, that could add as much as $8 trillion more to the deficit, according to the Committee for a Responsible Budget.
Do you actually expect Republicans to take up these proposals?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: You know, in 2017, I voted for a tax reduction package that they said would add to the debt, but I also forced my colleagues to vote for pay-as-you-go. It’s a policy that’s in our law, and they have to waive it, which means that if a tax cut causes a reduction and causes an increase in the debt because of reduced revenue, that you have to have spending cuts.
So, I have always been in favor of the tax cuts, but I have also been in favor of the spending cuts. The same will occur with this. If we do cut spend – cut taxes, which I think helps the economy, you leave money in the hands of the productive private sector, I think that’s a good idea. But if you do it, I would cut spending.
And there will be procedural blockade or procedural votes that I will force that says that we should also cut spending as well.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Our polling shows that the vast majority of Americans, 86 percent, prefer people with experience running the agencies, and 64 percent polled by us think it’s important to appoint people with that experience in Washington.
Given that, for example, the Pentagon pick hasn’t ever managed a large corporation or held a high rank in the military, do you think he can run the Pentagon?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: Yes.
And I think the vast majority of people, if you poll them, will say that they don’t think people should be picked based on religion or gender or sexuality. They want people to be picked on merit.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: And one of one of Pete Hegseth’s criticisms of our Pentagon is that we’ve gone away from merit…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: … and gone more towards racial characteristics.
And so I think that the people are and would be overwhelmingly in favor…
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: … of someone who’s going to base hiring on merit, not on racial characteristics.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
Senator Paul, thank you for your time today.
Face the Nation will be back in a minute.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to Democratic Senator Tammy Duckworth of the state of Illinois. She sits on the Armed Services and Foreign Relations Committees.
Good morning to you, Senator.
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH (D-Illinois): Good morning. Thanks for having me on.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, former Congressman Matt Gaetz took himself out of the running this week to become attorney general.
This was after he had met with senators. And CBS has reported that as many as 15 Republicans opposed him. Does that suggest to you that your Republican colleagues in the Senate will hold the line, or are you still concerned they will just green-light anyone Trump nominates?
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: Well, I’m deeply concerned that they will green- light. I’m glad that they held the line on him.
I’m also glad that they voted the way they did for the Republican leader, but that was in the secret ballot when they elected Senator Thune. And, you know, Mr. Trump’s main choice for that position was not selected.
But from what I’m hearing from my Republican colleagues on everything from defense secretary to other posts, it sounds like they are ready to roll over for Mr. Trump.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, on that point of Defense, since you sit in this advisory role on Armed Services, I don’t have to tell you, but, for our audience, there are over 200,000 American women who serve in active duty service right now, thousands of them in front-line combat roles.
You were one of them in 2004, when your Black Hawk helicopter you were piloting was shot at by an RPG, and you sustained severe injuries.
Here is what Mr. Trump’s pick for defense secretary said about women serving:
(Begin VT)
PETE HEGSETH (U.S. Defense Secretary Nominee): I’m straight up just saying we should not have women in combat roles. It hasn’t made us more effective, hasn’t made us more lethal, has made fighting more complicated.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do your colleagues who sit with you on Armed Services believe that Mr. Hegseth’s statement there is an issue that he needs to perhaps retract?
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: Well, I think they need to, because he’s wrong.
Our military could not go to war without the 220,000-plus women who serve in uniform. The women in our military does make us more effective, does make us more lethal.
And let me just make one thing clear. The women who are in those very particular roles, whether it’s in Special Forces or the SEALs or the infantry, they meet the same standards as the men. And so he’s been out there saying that, you know, women are not as strong, we don’t – the ones who are in those roles have met the same standards as the men and have passed the very rigorous testing.
And so he’s just flat-out wrong. Our military could not go to war without the women who wear this uniform. And, frankly, America’s daughters are just as capable of defending liberty and freedom as her sons.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Having served in combat yourself, what do you think of the idea that women make fighting more complicated? That was specifically what he focused on.
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: Well, it just shows his lack of understanding of where our military is.
He was a pretty low-ranking guy in the military, and he never had a command position. He was a platoon leader, I think, once or twice, but he never even commanded a company. And so this is a man who is inordinately unqualified for the position.
Remember that the Pentagon is three million servicemen and women and civilians. It is over a $900 billion budget. He’s never, you know, run anything anywhere near to that size. And, frankly, women actually make our military more effective.
And I have personally found that I brought many insights to my job when I was a company commander, when I was a logistics officer that came from my own personal background that made things better. I took better care of my men, for example, in my unit. I was often the only woman in an all-male unit, and my gender didn’t have – wasn’t a problem.
I just adapted, and we continued to perform the mission.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The question of character has also come up in regard to this leadership role. Mr. Hegseth has acknowledged that he paid a woman back in 2017 to quiet her accusations of sexual assault. He claims it was consensual sex.
I’m sure you read that Monterey police report, as we did here. It refers to the offense code as – quote – “rape, victim unconscious of the nature of the act.” It details both the accuser’s and Hegseth’s version of events.
Here’s what Senator Markwayne Mullin said it shows: “two people flirting with each other.”
Is the committee going to speak with the victim to ask if this was a misunderstanding?
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: Well, that’s – that will be the decision of the Republican chairman of the committee next year.
I hope that we will. But I suspect that they, again, will roll over for Mr. Trump. Frankly, I will make – raise those questions. Remember that we’ve just fought over a decade of fights and – and overhauled the military and its treatment of military sexual trauma.
It’s frankly an insult and really troubling that Mr. Trump would nominate someone who has admitted that he’s paid off a victim who has claimed rape allegations against him. This is not the kind of person you want to lead the Department of Defense.
MARGARET BRENNAN: To move to a vote you took this past week, you said you have disgust at the brutal tactics used by the Netanyahu government in Gaza, but you voted against all three resolutions of disapproval this past week that would have paused very specific offensive weapons shipments to Israel.
Your colleague Senator Van Hollen said it’s just about getting Israel to comply with U.S. law. How do you respond to that? Why shouldn’t they be held to the same standards as other recipients of U.S. aid?
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: Well, I respect Senator Van Hollen’s position. And, in fact, I have cosigned many of the letters that he’s led that has called on Israel to comply with humanitarian standards across the world.
My decision comes from my military experience, the fact that many of these rounds were not going to be delivered for a couple of years, the fact that, you know, these are resolutions. They don’t actually have binding effect. And, frankly, for me, my decision came from the fact that we have tens of thousands of US troops in harm’s way right now.
And I am deeply concerned that a resolution that doesn’t actually do anything might embolden the Houthis and the Iranian regime and Hamas to further target and – American troops abroad. So I respect Chris. He and I are good friends. We were freshmen in the Senate together, but we come at this from slightly different angles, mine from 23 years of military experience.
But I do share his concern about the brutal way that Israel has acted in Gaza. And, you know, I have cosigned many of his letters.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Our polling shows that there is a desire among the American people to see Democrats and Republicans work together in this future Trump administration.
With that in mind, I’m looking at some of these nominees, including Trump’s pick for labor secretary. She is drawing praise from unions because she is perceived as – as pro-union. Could you see yourself supporting her or any of the other nominees?
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: Absolutely.
I – you know, what I would need to do is have a chance to sit down and talk with each one of these nominees, and listen to them and hear what they have to say. I think Congressman Collins over at VA, he’s the nominee for VA, is another person I can talk with. In fact, I worked with him when I was in the House a few years back.
I am going to evaluate each one of these candidates based on their ability to do the job and their willingness to put the needs of the American people first and not be on a retribution campaign and a – for Mr. Trump.
So it’s about, are they willing to be independent and do the job that they are being nominated to do, and are they competent and qualified for the position?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Duckworth, we appreciate your time this morning.
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’ll be right back with a lot more Face the Nation.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION.
We’re now joined by Maryland Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen.
Good to have you here.
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): It’s great to be with you, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, in these final days of Democratic control of the Senate and the White House, there’s a long to-do list. Congress has to fund the government by end of December, pass the defense bill, the NDAA, an extension to the farm bill, and I know Democrats want to confirm as many judges as possible. What’s top of your list?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Well, all of those are on the list. Top of my list is also the disaster relief funding. Emergency relief. We had big parts of the country hit by hurricanes and other natural disasters. In my state of Maryland, we had the collapse of the Key Bridge in Baltimore. So, we’ve always taken the approach that the whole country will be there to help fellow Americans in need. The president has now submitted $100 billion emergency disaster relief plan that includes funding for the Key Bridge. So, I hope that we will get that done by the end of the year. People need that relief and they need it now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s about $8 billion for the bridge alone, is that right?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Not for the bridge alone. This is – that’s part of the emergency relief fund that includes approximately $2 billion for the bridge.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. And you’re relatively confident that this can be delivered on?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: I hope that all of our colleagues, Republicans and Democrats alike, will support disaster relief.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: We’ve always had the philosophy, all for one and one for all when Americans get hit by these disasters. I hope we will stick with that position.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we also are looking at a new Congress very soon and, as you know, a new commander in chief. Republicans will have the majority in the Senate with 53 seats, so they don’t really need Democratic votes to confirm many of the picks that Mr. Trump has been making to run agencies.
But from what you’ve seen to date, are you in favor of any of them, your colleague, Marco Rubio, as secretary of State, for example, or this new choice to be Labor secretary?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Look, my view is, this is what the vetting process is all about, the hearing process. The Senate, of course, under the Constitution, has the job of advising and consenting on nominations. And I take that responsibility very seriously.
I’ve been troubled by some talk that President-elect Donald Trump wants to short circuit that constitutional approach using this recess appointment device, and it will be really important that the new republican leader in the Senate uphold the Senate’s prerogatives under the Constitution and not try to do an end run.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll stay tuned to see how that plays out.
Let’s turn to the Middle East. You said that President Biden’s inaction to halt the horrific humanitarian situation inside of Gaza is a stain on his administration, that it’s shameful. Is there anything in these final weeks that could be done to erase that stain?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: I think there are things that can be done. And I should emphasize that I supported President Biden’s decision to travel to Israel in the aftermath of the brutal Hamas attacks of October 7th of last year, and stand with the people of Israel as they confront this threat. But I also wish the president had effectively used U.S. leverage to essentially assert his own positions. We’ve seen this pattern where President Biden makes demands of Prime Minister Netanyahu, only to be ignored or slapped down entirely. And then President Biden sends more bombs and more money. That is not an effective use of leverage. So, I do hope in these closing months the president will finally make more effective use of American leverage to, at the very least, uphold American law.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: To insist that the Netanyahu government allows humanitarian aid into Gaza, and that they use our weapons in a manner consistent with the laws of war.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you take a nuanced and specific stand on that, upholding U.S. law. This is often characterized, though, as being for or against helping Israel. There were 19 senators, you were one of them, who voted this past week to pause specific shipments on three different groups of weapons, offensive weapons, to Israel. You said the State Department’s reviewing 500 incidents where U.S. weapons were used and caused unnecessary civilian harm. The State Department has said Israel’s doing things to fix the situation, which is why weapons continue to be green lit. Are you suggesting that’s a lie?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: I’m suggesting that the president of the United States is not fully complying with American law on this question. If you look at the letter that was sent by Secretary Austin and Secretary Blinken to Israeli authorities in October, you look at that final paragraph, you’ll see that they’re complaining about the fact that there is no effective mechanism right now for getting to the bottom of claims of civilian harm. The State Department has, as I said, about 500, as you said, and we haven’t gotten to the bottom of those.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Because the process is broken, and I would argue that there’s not been the will to fix the process because a lot of people don’t want the process to produce the obvious answer, which is, there have been many cases where we’ve seen U.S. weapons used in violation of the international humanitarian law. In fact, if you go back to the NSM 20 report earlier this year, the Biden administration said specifically that there was a high likelihood that U.S. weapons were being used in violation of international law, and yet they’ve done nothing in the intervening period to enforce that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: When I pressed U.S. officials on this privately, they’ve said, what do you want us to do? Do you want us to put in a halt for a few weeks? And then Donald Trump reverses it. What’s the point? How do you respond?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Well, the point is, they should have been doing this for a much longer period of time. The president had ample opportunities over the last year. There are many people in the administration, senior level – at the senior level who told me that this war was going to come to an end back in January. You know, I’ve met with hostage families on numerous occasions who have been calling out Prime Minister Netanyahu for not agreeing to a ceasefire and a return of their loved ones. Minister Gallant, the defense minister of Israel, was fired because he wanted to prioritize the return of hostages, and yet President Biden has never called out Prime Minister Netanyahu.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: For his obstruction on this. Even though those families I’ve met with are calling him out.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Even post-election, why do you think he won’t do that?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: I really don’t know. I just don’t know why the president of the United States has not been willing to make more effective use of American leverage to assert his own stated objectives. I mean he’s been ignored on other things, too, right? He wants the PA to be the nucleus of governance in a post-war Gaza.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Palestinian Authority.
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: He wants a two-state solution. Prime Minister Netanyahu has not only ignored those, he’s gone out there and bragged about how he’s blocking President Biden’s efforts. And yet the blank check just keeps on coming. So, what my colleagues and I are saying is, let’s just pause these transfers of offensive weapons, certain ones, until Prime Minister Netanyahu and his government come into compliance with American law. These are American laws on the books.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: So, this is not about whether we support Israel or not. Of course we support Israel. It’s about whether our support is used in a manner consistent with American law and American values.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Van Hollen, thank you for explaining your position.
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to retired Army Lieutenant General H.R. McMaster, who served as national security adviser in the first Trump administration. His latest book is “At War with Ourselves,” which chronicles his time at the White House.
Good morning, and welcome back.
LIEUTENANT GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER (Retired, Former White House National Security Adviser): Good morning, Margaret. Happy Thanksgiving.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Happy early Thanksgiving to you.
I want to ask you about the geopolitical threat picture right now that the next commander in chief will be walking into the Oval Office and facing. In these final weeks of the Biden administration, Ukraine has started using U.S.-made ATACMS, a type of longer range missile, to strike within Russian territory. President Biden also approved anti-personnel land mines. The aim is to get them on stronger footing before Trump takes office.
Can these weapons quickly make a difference?
LIEUTENANT GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER: They can make a difference, Margaret. Really it made no sense to not allow the Ukrainians to fire those missiles at the bases that Russia was using to continue their onslaught against the Ukrainian people and Ukrainian infrastructure. And so, it’s another one of these example how the Biden administration has taken this halting approach to providing weapons and then permissions to use weapons.
And so, I think it’s – it’s important because both sides right now are incentivized to make as many gains on the battlefield as they can before the new Trump administration comes in. And you see Russia throwing troops into Ukrainian defenses. I mean, they’re taking – you know, they’re taking tens of thousands of casualties a month. I think it’s really an unsustainable rate. And what the Ukrainians are doing now is trying to protect themselves from the onslaught, inflict as many casualties as they can, and they’re trading some – some space for time and the opportunity to cause more attrition on Russian forces.
So, the next couple of months, I think, are really critical in terms of the – you know, how – what is the next phase in the war in Ukraine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you know, President Zelenskyy said just yesterday that he’s sure Vladimir Putin is trying to, quote, “push us out by January 20th,” and try to demonstrate that he has the upper hand. He’s not saying that, you know, just as an observation. He is looking at the national security adviser, Mike Waltz. He’s looking at the possible next secretary of State, Marco Rubio, who has voted against Ukraine aid. The vice president-elect is against helping Ukraine. Can Ukraine get the upper hand here, and are these top advisers going to be persuadable?
LIEUTENANT GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER: Well, this is a real problem, Margaret. You know, I think what you’re seeing is, this delivers a psychological blow to the Ukrainians. Ukrainians are struggling to generate the manpower that they need and to sustain their defensive efforts. And that’s – it’s important that they get the weapons they need and the training that they need, but also they have to have the confidence that they can prevail. And any sort of messages that we might reduce our aid are quite damaging to them from a moral perspective.
I think he’ll – and what I hope is that those who President Trump has nominated, and President Trump himself will begin to see the quite obvious connections between the war in Ukraine and this axis of aggressors that are doing everything they can to tear down the existing international order.
I mean, heck, Margaret, I mean North Korean soldiers are fighting on European soil in the first major war in Europe since World War II. Look at what China’s doing to sustain Russia’s war-making machine with the cash Vladimir Putin needs but also with the equipment and the hardware necessary to build these missiles that are continuing this onslaught. Iran. Iran is providing the drones and missiles. North Korea’s also providing, you know, eight million rounds of artillery. So, I think what’s happened is, so many people have taken such a myopic view of Ukraine and they’ve misunderstood Putin’s intentions and how consequential the war is to our interests across the world.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, one of the things – and you are a historian. You’ve written quite a lot and looked at presidential decision making. One of the things you’ve written in “At War with Ourselves” was, “it is important,” based on your study of the Vietnam War, “to ensure that the president gets the best analysis and multiple options so he can make informed decisions.”
Do you think so far that Mr. Trump’s choices for director of national intelligence, for defense secretary, are these individuals who will provide the president with the best analysis and what he needs to hear, not just what he wants to hear?
LIEUTENANT GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER: Well, this is what the Senate has to – has to really exercise their advice and consent role. And I think it’s worth going back to Federalist 76 where John Adams said, really this advice and consent is so important to make sure the best people are in those positions. President Trump, as I wrote in the book, he does learn. He does listen to advice. He does evolve his understanding. So, who will those people be?
I think for the new secretary of defense, the nominated director of national intelligence, they ought to be asked, what do you think motivates or drives and constrains Vladimir Putin? There’s a fundamental misunderstanding based on – on the nominee for – for the – for DNI about what motivates him. It’s not his security concerns. His security concerns don’t need to be allayed. That’s the mistake the Biden administration made. And I think as a result almost green lighted the invasion – the reinvasion of Ukraine in February of 2022.
What are the consequences if – if Ukraine fails and Russia succeeds globally? I think, Margaret, they have got to be asked about, you know, really, how do they reconcile or help President Trump reconcile peace through strength and what you see in some elements of the Republican Party which replicate the far left oftentimes toward retrenchment and disengagement and then even blaming ourselves for the acts of our adversaries as – as – as Tulsi Gabbard has done, you know, talking about, you know, how Putin really felt aggrieved. And that’s why he had to invade Ukraine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right, that’s a Russian talking point that she’s repeated and in direct contradiction (ph) to what U.S. intelligence has concluded.
I also want to ask you about someone you personally –
LIEUTENANT GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER: And this is what – this is what I can’t understand, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
LIEUTENANT GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER: There’s some – there’s some people in the Republican Party these days who kind of tend to parrot Vladimir Putin’s talking points.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why?
LIEUTENANT GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER: I don’t know if it’s because they’re drawn to him and they see him as a – kind of a defender of western civilization, just a shirtless guy on horseback, but they’ve got to disabuse themselves of this, you know, strange affection for Vladimir Putin. You know, who – who is – who is not going to stop in his efforts to restore Russia to national greatness at our expense. That’s what he’s obsessed with. He’s obsessed with kind of re-establishing the Russian empire.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
LIEUTENANT GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER: And so he has aspirations that go far beyond anything that’s in reaction to what we do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
LIEUTENANT GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER: And the only thing that stops him really is strength, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And you wrote in your book that you didn’t understand Donald Trump’s fascination with Vladimir Putin.
Quickly, Seb Gorka is going to be the senior director for counterterrorism, deputy assistant to the president. Is he a good person to advise on national security?
LIEUTENANT GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER: No, no, he’s not, Margaret. But I – you know, I think that – that the president and others who are working with him will probably determine that pretty quickly soon after he gets into that job.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, timestamp on that prediction. H.R. McMaster, a lot to talk to you about. We’re going to have to leave it there for today.
We’ll be back in a moment.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: The 2024 election was historic for several reasons. Among them, the first openly transgender person was elected to the United States Congress. She joins us now from the state she will be representing, Delaware. Democratic Representative-elect Sarah McBride.
Welcome to FACE THE NATION.
REPRESENTATIVE-ELECT SARAH MCBRIDE (D-DE): Thank you for having me, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You know, it’s interesting given how polarized, how angry and divided this country is that people choose to serve and to run. You told my colleague, Scott MacFarlane, that it was your personal experience as a caregiver for your husband during his bout with terminal cancer that inspired you to run. Do you expect that health care policy will be the focus of your work here?
REPRESENTATIVE-ELECT SARAH MCBRIDE: Well, I certainly am glad to be back here in Delaware after two weeks of orientation and to have the privilege of serving the state that I love in Congress.
I ran to bring down costs facing workers, retirees, and their families. That means bringing down the cost of health care, but also housing and childcare and everyday expenses like gas and groceries.
I did run for office after my experience as a caregiver to my husband, Andy, during his battle with cancer. And throughout that experience, while Andy ultimately lost his life, we both knew how lucky we were. We knew how lucky Andy was to have health insurance that would allow him to get care that would hopefully save his life. And we both knew how lucky we were to have flexibility with our employers that allowed Andy to focus on the full- time job of getting care and me to focus on the full-time job of being there by his side to care for him, to love him, to marry him, and to walk him to his passing.
And I ran for office because I do not believe that in the wealthiest, most developed nation on earth, that that time and that ability to get care should be a matter of luck. I believe it should be the law of the land. And it’s why during my time in the Delaware general assembly I passed paid family and medical leave and secured the largest investment in our state’s Medicaid program. And I want to do that work in Congress on health care, but also on housing and childcare.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Paid leave is something that Mr. Trump has – has paid lip service to. We’ll see in the new Congress if it comes up.
We see in our CBS polling that 86 percent of voters feel congressional Democrats should find common ground with Mr. Trump and Republicans.
Do you feel you can?
REPRESENTATIVE-ELECT SARAH MCBRIDE: Well, I said throughout this campaign that I will work with anyone who’s willing to work with me to help Delawareans, to lower cost facing my constituents. There are opportunities for us to find common ground. But it’s also clear that this administration, as it begins to fill its appointments with Project 2025 authors, that a lot of the policies that this president will pursue will likely hurt my constituents and raise prices.
And so, where I need to fight back, I will. But where I can find common ground, I will certainly seek it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE-ELECT SARAH MCBRIDE: That’s when I’ve done during my time in the general assembly where nearly every bill I passed, passed with bipartisan support.
MARGARET BRENNAN: As you mentioned, you were here for orientation. Speaker of the House Mike Johnson was asking about you coming to work and some objections by a female South Carolina Republican representative regarding what bathroom you’d be able to use.
Here’s what the speaker said.
(BEGIN VC)
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): A man is a man, and a woman is a woman. And a man cannot become a woman. That said, I also believe – that’s what scripture teaches, what I just said. But I also believe that we treat everybody with dignity.
(END VC)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you believe are you are being treated with dignity by your colleagues?
REPRESENTATIVE-ELECT SARAH MCBRIDE: I didn’t run for the United States House of Representatives to talk about what bathroom I use. I didn’t run to talk about myself. I ran to deliver for Delawareans. And while Republicans in Congress seem focused on bathrooms and trans people and specifically me, I’m focused on rolling up my sleeves, diving into the details, setting up my office, and beginning the hard work of delivering for Delawareans on the issues that I know keep them up at night.
And I look forward to working with any colleague who’s ready to work and ready to be serious about the issues that matter because, at the end of the day, how I’m being treated does not matter. What matters is how the American people are being treated, and whether we’re actually focused on the issues that matter to them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, some of your fellow congressional Democrats, including Tom Suozzi and Seth Moulton, have also recently spoken about their feelings, looking back at the last election, and said Democrats should be more open about saying whether they object to transgender athletes playing in girls’ sports. Those were the specific examples they brought up.
How would you respond to your soon-to-be Democratic colleagues on those? Do you understand why some parents, for example, feel uncomfortable or frustrated?
REPRESENTATIVE-ELECT SARAH MCBRIDE: Look, I think this country is still entering into a conversation about who trans people are, the full diversity of the community. And I’ve had conversations with colleagues in the Democratic caucus already that span diversity of thought about how the party should engage on a whole host of issues.
But I think we are all united that every single American deserves equal rights, I think we are all united that attempts to attack a vulnerable community are not only mean spirited but really an attempt to misdirect. Because every single time we hear the incoming administration or Republicans in Congress talk about any vulnerable group in this country, we have to be clear that it is an attempt to distract. It is an attempt to distract from what they are actually doing. Every single time – every single time we hear them say the word trans, look at what they’re doing with their right hand. Look at what they’re doing to pick the pocket of American workers, to fleece seniors while privatizing Social Security and Medicare. Look what they’re doing undermining workers.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE-ELECT SARAH MCBRIDE: And here’s also what we have to be clear about, because I think the last week has been a prime example of this. Every bit of time and energy that is used to divert the attention of the federal government to go after trans people is time and energy that is not focused on addressing the cost of living for our constituents. And we have clear that there is a real cost for the American worker every time they focus on this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, Congresswoman-elect, I’m sure we’ll be seeing you here in Washington.
We’ll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s it for us today. Thank you all for watching. Until next week.
For FACE THE NATION, I’m Margaret Brennan.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
