WASHINGTON (AP) — What people remember about the first debate between Joe Biden and Donald Trump four years ago are probably the interruptions, the shouting and the “will you shut up, man?”
Then-President Trump arrived at that first game in Cleveland seemingly determined to roll up Biden at every turn, leaving the Democratic nominee irritated and moderator Chris Wallace scrambling to regain control.
Now, in 2024, many of the rules that Biden’s team has pushed for this time around — and to which the Trump campaign has agreed — are intended to minimize the potential for a chaotic repeat. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted except when it is their turn to speak. There will be no studio audience singing along with whoops and jeers.
The second and final presidential debate of 2020, held in Nashville, Tennessee, was a much more subdued event than the first, helped by a mute button and participants who may have been chastened by terrible reviews from the first contest, especially for Trump.
But if the Biden-Trump debate descends into pandemonium next Thursday in Atlanta, remember that the past was prologue.
A look back at that first confrontation between Biden and Trump on September 29, 2020:
The debate is starting to go off the rails
It started quietly enough, with a brief conversation about the Supreme Court vacancy created by the sudden death of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg just days earlier. But the conversation became contentious when the men became embroiled in health care and Trump’s handling of COVID-19.
The sparring over the pandemic was tense enough — with Biden at one point telling Wallace, “You’re not going to shut him up.” Then Biden returned to the court and abortion rights, prompting another outburst from Trump that continued to irritate the Democrat (and likely Wallace, and perhaps the viewing public as well).
“The thing is, the president also opposes Roe v. Wade,” Biden said of Trump. “That’s also on the ballot and in court, in court, and so that’s at stake now as well. And so the elections are everything -“
“You don’t know what’s on the ballot. Why is it on the ballot?” Trump interrupted. “Why is this on the ballot? It’s not on the ballot.”
Trump would continue to intervene until Biden showed his first real sign of irritation with his opponent, saying, “Donald, would you be quiet for a moment?”
But Trump did not relent, refusing to let Wallace question him without interruption about his Obamacare replacement plan, and he taunted Biden that his first election victory over Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders was “not much” and that he “just lost the left” when he distanced himself away from Sanders’ views on health care.
“Folks,” Biden finally said, conveying his irritation to the audience, “do you have any idea what this clown is doing?”
Biden: “Will you shut up, man?”
In one clip from the chaos in Cleveland that was replayed at length, Biden finally snapped at Trump: “Will you shut up, man?”
It came amid a debate over progressive proposals to overhaul the Senate’s procedural rules or the Supreme Court itself — topics that have been tricky for an institutional figure like Biden. The Democrat, by his own admission, declined to answer the question.
So Trump took matters into his own hands.
‘Are you going to occupy the court? Are you going to pack the court?’ Trump asked as Biden tried to make a case directly to the audience. Trump muttered that Biden did not want to answer the question.
“Why wouldn’t you answer that question? You want to appoint a lot of new Supreme Court justices. Radical left,” Trump concluded.
That’s when Biden – again – lost his cool. “Will you shut up, man?”
But Trump — again — didn’t give up, forcing Wallace to shorten the segment and move on to another topic. Biden lamented how unproductive the discussion was.
Trump insults Biden’s intelligence service
The Republican also didn’t hesitate to get personal, from attacking Biden’s only living son, Hunter, to mocking the Democrat’s academic credentials.
It seemed that Trump had been waiting for Biden to use a derivation of the word “smart” to undermine his intelligence. So when Biden warned that more Americans would die from COVID-19 if the president didn’t handle the pandemic smarter, Trump intervened.
“Did you use the word smart?” Trump said. “So you said you went to Delaware State, but you forgot the name of your college. You didn’t go to the state of Delaware. You graduated at or near the bottom of your class.”
“Never use the word smart with me,” continued Trump, who graduated from the University of Pennsylvania. “Don’t ever use that word… Because you know what? There’s nothing smart about you, Joe.
Biden received his bachelor’s degree from the University of Delaware in Newark in 1965 and enrolled at Syracuse University law school soon after. He wasn’t known for his great grades; at Syracuse he graduated 76th in a class of 85.
Trump nods to the Proud Boys
It was one of Trump’s most memorable moments where Biden was not interrupted.
Wallace urged Trump to condemn white supremacists and militia groups, especially as the Republican president spent so much of his energy denouncing so-called “Antifa,” or far-left militant groups.
Trump responded that he was willing to do so, but never explicitly condemned right-wing extremist groups by name. When Biden pressed him to condemn the Proud Boys, one such right-wing group, Trump seemingly did the opposite.
“Proud boys, take a step back and stick with it,” Trump said. Through these words and the broader exchange, some members of the neofascist group celebrated what they saw as an implicit endorsement of the president.
Trump was pressed into cleanup duty a day later, saying he did not know who the Proud Boys were and adding that “whoever they are, they need to resign. Let the police do their job.”
The controversial discussion about Biden’s sons
Biden has long criticized Trump’s attitude toward U.S. troops, including his reported comments that he did not want to visit a U.S. military cemetery in France in 2018 because he thought the dead soldiers were “suckers” and “losers.”
“The way you talk about the military, the way you talk about them being losers and, and, and, and just being losers,” Biden told Trump. Speaking about his eldest son, Beau, a veteran who died of brain cancer, Biden continued: “My son was in Iraq. He spent a year there. He got… he got the Bronze Star. He was awarded the Conspicuous Service Medal. He was not a loser. He was a patriot.”
Trump backed away sharply and instead focused on Biden’s youngest son, Hunter.
“Are you talking about Hunter? Are you talking about Hunter?” Trump responded and continued, “I don’t know Beau. I know Hunter. Hunter has been kicked out of the military.”
Trump then claimed that Hunter Biden had been dishonorably discharged, which Biden quickly refuted. Hunter Biden was administratively discharged — which is not a dishonorable discharge — by the Navy in 2014 after testing positive for cocaine.
“My son… like many people we know at home, had a drug problem. He has caught up,” Biden said, adding: “I am proud of my son.”
Biden promises that he will not declare victory until the election is officially certified, Trump does not
During the final moments of the first debate, Wallace asked both candidates if they would promise not to declare victory until the election was independently certified, and urged their respective supporters to remain calm.
Trump declined to do so, saying instead that he would encourage his supporters to go to the polls and muse about election fraud.
Biden, in stark contrast, answered the same question: “Yes.”
Trump, who would lose the 2020 race, never conceded the election. Just over three months after the Cleveland debate, a mob of his supporters, fueled by his election lies, stormed the Capitol on January 6, 2021.
