The following is a transcript of an interview with Mouaz Moustafa, executive director of the Syrian Emergency Task Force, and Andrew Boyd, former director of the CIA Center for Cyber Intelligence, on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” broadcast on 8 December. , 2024.
MARGARET BRENNAN: For an analysis of the events unfolding in the Middle East, we are now joined by Andrew Boyd, a CBS News contributor who previously held leadership positions at the CIA and once served in Damascus as a Foreign Service officer , and Mouaz Moustafa , the executive director of the Syrian Emergency Task Force. Welcome back to ‘Face the Nation’. Mouaz, I want to start with you. You have been involved in the Syrian opposition for more than ten years. Help us understand what it means to see the regime fall.
MOUAZ MOUSTAFA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE SYRIAN EMERGENCY TASK FORCE: It is an indescribable feeling of happiness that this regime, this dictator who committed the worst crimes of the 21st century, together with Russia, Iran and ISIS, all these terrible people have been defeated by a coalition of rebels who did not need any support from any country, not Turkey, not Qatar, not anyone. This time, Syria was liberated by its people, for its people. And it’s really inspiring. And the consequences are not only good for Syria, but also for the Middle East and Europe.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There’s a lot of uncertainty about what this all means. Andy, you’ve been keeping a close eye on this region for some time. Right now, none of the officials I’ve talked to in regional governments, in the U.S. government, seem to know where Bashar al-Assad has even gone. Does it matter where he went?
ANDREW BOYD, FMR. DIRECTOR OF THE CIA CENTER FOR CYBER INTELLIGENCE: Mouaz may differ on this. I don’t think so, now that the government has fallen. I think what’s going to happen in the coming weeks, and if the opposition actually treats all the factions in Syria with dignity and respect and guarantees their security, we will have a greater understanding because, you know, there’s a lot of the atrocities that the Assad regime has committed. Those people are probably still in Syria, so we’ll see how that goes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: A valid point: the people who worked within the regime are still there.
BOYD: The Syrian Military Intelligence, the other intelligence services, the Syrian General Intelligence Directorate, I mean, have a lot of blood on their hands.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes, and I know that you personally, Mouaz, were involved in smuggling out documentary evidence of some of the torture, of the mass atrocities, of the systematic, institutionalized violence that took place from some of those prisons. You took it to Congress. You made it public. With those billing buildings being seized by rebels, what do you think we can learn now?
MOUSTAFA: Well, the first thing we’re working very hard on, and I can tell you that all the rebel factions are working very hard, is to find Austin Tice and hopefully, God willing, bring him home alive to his family…
MARGARET BRENNAN: An American journalist who once worked for CBS News for a while, a Navy veteran.
MOUSTAFA: And he’s a hero. He was going to cover up the plight of the Syrian people from what Assad, Iran and Russia did to them, and God willing, we will bring him home alive, but we have to find him and get him to his mother, no matter what. What. And the Syrians forever owe him a debt. Also other Americans who are not declared. And freeing Syrians from prisons is something that is very important, but gathering that intelligence, as well as the Hezbollah, Iranian, Russian, Assad regime and all the officials arrested by the Syrian people, again, without any support from the Syrian authorities. international community or regional countries, who actually worked to save Assad, that is valuable, that is valuable to the United States. Therefore, we must work with this new emerging government, God willing, this is the path to democracy. The only Arab country in the world that hopes to become a democracy is Syria. That’s incredible.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s a big commitment to make.
MOUSTAFA: It’s not a promise, it’s hope, that’s realistic.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Hope. Andy – but right now the person we see appearing – we showed him at the Umayyad Mosque, a hugely symbolic place to give a speech, in Damascus – the leader of a terrorist group, by the United States designated a terrorist, $10 million bounty on his head.
BOYD: Right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What does that mean to you?
BOYD: Well, as Congressman Turner said, it won’t be an easy process to delist Abu Muhammad al-Jawlani.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Which means the US can’t talk to him.
BOYD: The US can’t talk to him. I mean, you know, we can provide some flexibility there, but he’s not going to be off the nomination list right away. So I mean, we’ll see. I mean, you said that – that he will respect all the factions, the Druze, the Christians, even the Shiites and Alawites, who were responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Syrians –
MOUSTAFA: I speak through his actions, not through his words. Aleppo, and so on. You could talk to the Bishop of Aleppo, but yes, absolutely.
BOYD: True, but time will tell. I mean, I’m a born skeptic, like many of my colleagues at the agency. We’ll see.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Go ahead, Mouaz. Tell us who’s in this. You talked about it as a coalition, not just as HTS. Who are these people who now appear to be in control of Syria?
MOUSTAFA: Sure. First of all, since the entire world is reducing the entire Syrian revolution to one faction of a coalition, or let’s say, even one person within a faction of that coalition, let’s discuss that. Why was HTS placed on the terrorist list? It was put on a terrorist list over an older version called Jabhat al-Nusra, which had a loose connection with al-Qaeda, not transnational or regional terrorist, but inter-Islamist, whatever. I don’t agree with any –
BOYD: But… but Mouaz, I think Margaret also speaks as a person Abu Muhammad al-Jawlani. I mean, he was with al-Qaeda in Iraq. He worked for Abu Musab Zarqawi. He spent several years as a detainee in Bucca prison, you know, so we are also talking about HTS, Jabhat al-Nusra, but also about him as a person. He is designated…
MOUSTAFA: Of course, let’s talk about him as a person. But what’s hilarious about this is that right now millions of Syrians are coming back from Europe and they’re ready to return home, because people haven’t been displaced, and there have been no reports of violations, and I was on the phone with the Bishop of Aleppo. The reason I was on the phone is that President Trump and the people in President Trump’s camp were concerned about the Christians in Syria. Of course, there’s so much focus on, you know, every time there’s something: terrorists, terrorists. And what ended up happening is that the Bishop of Aleppo said, ‘Sir, first of all, it is the coalition of groups, including HTS, and we have now had more electricity than under the regime, and our only fear is Russian air strikes. So I’m glad that President Trump has still told Russia what to do: get out of Syria, and it has done so.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we’ll keep an eye on whether that continues and what happens. And what it means for the…
MOUSTAFA: One last thing, Margaret, it’s very important…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mouaz, I have to go. I’m so sorry.
MOUSTAFA: But Al-Qaeda in Syria [UNINTEL]it’s the affiliate, and HTS defeated it and defeated ISIS. The old name is actually irrelevant.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we’ll take a look at this developing story and we’ll be right back.
