The following is a transcript of an interview with National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan on “Face the Nation,” airing June 9, 2024.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll start with President Biden’s National Security Advisor, Jake Sullivan, joining us from Paris. Jake, it’s good to have you back with us. I wonder: can all the hostages be rescued during these operations, as we saw happen successfully in Gaza yesterday? Or should you return to the negotiating table?
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR JAKE SULLIVAN: Look Margaret, by far the most effective, sure and proper way to get all the hostages out is to reach a comprehensive ceasefire and hostage agreement that President Biden outlined publicly a few days ago and which Israel publicly described a few days ago. accepted, and now we wait for Hamas’ response. If Hamas said yes to that deal, there would be a ceasefire, the hostages would come home, more humanitarian aid would flow in, and a better day would dawn for the Palestinian people. So what we’d like to see is that deal get done, because it’s the surest way to get the hostages home.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Jake, I know that the United States has provided intelligence support to this military operation. Are you at all concerned that this will jeopardize the chances of a diplomatic agreement? And- and is there a due date for Yahya Sinwar to respond to this offer?
JAKE SULLIVAN: It’s a fair question, Margaret, what Hamas will do after this operation in terms of its calculations on this deal. And of course I can’t put myself in the head of a Hamas terrorist. But the fact is that the whole world is looking to Hamas to say yes, because for all those people who have been calling for a ceasefire all these months, now is the time. There could be a ceasefire tomorrow, even today, if Hamas said yes to the deal. So from our perspective, the world needs to continue to reinforce that message very clearly and strongly. We haven’t had an official response yet – no response from Hamas yet. We’re waiting for one. We are waiting for the message from the Qataris and the Egyptians who are the mediators in communication with them, and we will continue to reinforce the ‘accept the deal’ message until we get that answer.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Jake, I was looking back at the comments you made on this program just a week after that horrific attack on Israel on October 7, and even early on you were pressing the Israeli government for a clear plan about what they going to do. do in Gaza the day after the war ends. Has Netanyahu accepted any of the US proposals or suggestions? Did he present any of it to his own war cabinet?
JAKE SULLIVAN: We’ll have a detailed conversation with our Israeli counterparts about the day after. But it has also been clear to us from the very beginning, as you said, that a military strategy to defeat a terrorist group must be linked to a political and humanitarian strategy and a logical strategic endgame. And too often over the course of this conflict, we have failed to see that clear connection, and we have continued to reinforce the need for Israel to get it under control, to ensure that it has a holistic strategy to to ensure permanent defeat of Hamas and to ensure a better day of peace and stability for both Israelis and Palestinians. That’s something we’ll continue to talk to them about every day. It’s something that the President is talking directly to the Prime Minister about, and it’s something, quite frankly, that we have hard-won experiences that we can share from our own efforts in dealing with terrorist organizations in deep-seated insurgencies in other parts of the world.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So it sounds like no, there’s no agreement on that yet. Do you expect to have one by the time the Israeli Prime Minister comes to address Congress next month?
JAKE SULLIVAN: Well, I hope that by the time the Israeli Prime Minister comes to address Congress, which will be the end of July, we’ll have this ceasefire and a hostage agreement in place. We will build a future where Israel is secure, the Palestinian people have a future of freedom, dignity and self-determination, Israel is integrated into the region with better relations with its Arab neighbors, and the region overall is more stable and secure. , which is deeply in the American interest. All that, Margaret, is not just fantasy. All of that is available as the steps that could follow the making of a deal, and a deal could be made, as I said, as soon as this hour of Hamas would just say yes. That would be the starting signal for a better future for everyone in the region and fully safeguard America’s vital interests and reflect our values.
MARGARET BRENNAN: President Biden gave an interview to Time magazine published last week, and he was asked if he has seen evidence of Israeli war crimes in Gaza. He said: “The answer is that it is uncertain and has been investigated by the Israelis themselves.” He rejected the idea that Israel was starving people as part of its war strategy. But he also said, “I think they are engaging in activities that are inappropriate.” What do you think would be inappropriate?
JAKE SULLIVAN: Well, Margaret, a few weeks ago the State Department released a comprehensive report that not only spoke in generalities but also looked at specific incidents that raised real concerns.
MARGARET BRENNAN: –And it was inconclusive what the Secretary of State said about this program at the time.
JAKE SULLIVAN: – That’s right, and that’s exactly what the president said when he was asked the question. We don’t have enough information to draw definitive conclusions about specific incidents or to make legal decisions, but we do have enough information to be concerned. Our hearts break more than just over the loss of innocent Palestinian lives. The president himself has said publicly that Palestinians, innocent Palestinians, are going through hell in this conflict, and a large part of that is because Hamas has put them in an impossible situation. Hamas hides among the civilian population, holds hostages among the civilian population, fires at the IDF from behind the civilian population. And so we have asked Israel to take steps to be more precise and targeted in its military operations. But there is only one answer to all this, and that is the answer I keep coming back to, which is a ceasefire and a hostage agreement that would end the suffering, end the conflict, end would join the war and bring all the hostages home. That is what President Biden has been advocating forcefully and relentlessly in recent days. The G7 asked for it. Our Arab partners have called for this. Even the United Nations is doing its best to call for this. So it’s time for Hamas to come to the table, say yes, and let’s put an end to all the suffering that is currently taking place in Gaza.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes, but of all those who have supported the idea of an end to the war through these negotiations, Prime Minister Netanyahu, as you know, has not publicly said that he supports it. When the Prime Minister comes to the US to address Congress, will he meet with President Biden?
JAKE SULLIVAN: I have nothing to announce today, and as you know, the schedulers run the White House, so I’m not in a position to announce such visits in advance. He’s coming to address Congress. The president talks to him all the time and is in regular contact with him. Will continue to keep in touch with him regularly. And if we have something to share on that front, we will certainly do so.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we’ll watch because we know there’s tension. Let me ask you: Since you’re in Europe, I know you’ll be spending a fair amount of time there. This month, the president recently approved allowing Ukraine to use U.S.-supplied weapons to fire across the Russian border, a limited area but still a new policy choice here. Did that make a difference on the battlefield?
JAKE SULLIVAN: Well, I make a habit of letting the Ukrainians speak for themselves about their military operations and their impact. What I’m just saying is that, from the president’s perspective, this was common sense. What was happening around Kharkov, which was new in recent months, was a Russian offensive where they went from one side of the border straight to the other side of the border, and it just didn’t make sense not to do that. to allow the Ukrainians to fire across that border, to hit Russian guns and emplacements that were firing at the Ukrainians. So the president approved that. The Ukrainians carried out that authorization on the battlefield. And one thing I would like to point out is that the momentum of that Kharkov operation has come to a standstill. Now Kharkov remains under threat, but the Russians have failed to make material progress on that front in recent days, and the United States will continue to support Ukraine in holding the line and pushing back aggressive Russian forces. .
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, as you know, Vladimir Putin said in response to that, he said that Russia has the ability to arm Western adversaries. In response, one of your top aides here in Washington on Friday, Jake, gave a pretty remarkable speech in which he said the US may soon need to increase its stockpile of strategic nuclear weapons, given the growing arsenals of America’s adversaries. At this point, have you seen evidence that Russia, China, North Korea and Iran share nuclear technology, and what would prompt President Biden to make that decision?
JAKE SULLIVAN: Well, Margaret, I can’t speak to intelligence matters, especially very sensitive intelligence matters involving nuclear capabilities. But what I can say is that we are concerned. We are concerned about the cooperation between the countries you just mentioned, and we are concerned about the advancing nuclear arsenals of countries like China and Russia, as well as North Korea. This is something we focus on. We are looking hard at it, and we will consult with our allies and partners on the best path forward to ensure a safe, reliable, and credible nuclear deterrent by the United States. We haven’t made any decisions. We will monitor the situation closely, and we will also listen to calls from both sides, including from a recent committee of experts who asked us to at least keep the option you just described on the table. It’s something we’ll be making decisions about in the coming months and years.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is this because China has rejected your arms control efforts?
JAKE SULLIVAN: Well actually, Margaret, in recent months China has shown an increased willingness, not a decrease in willingness, to engage with us on issues related to proliferation and arms control. These are starting conversations. They are nothing like the kind of intense arms control negotiations we had with the Soviet Union at the height of the Cold War or with Russia in the post-Cold War era, but it is the beginning of a dialogue, and we will continue it continue dialogue. At the same time, we must ensure that we have a credible nuclear deterrent so that the United States is safe and all our allies are safe too.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Jake Sullivan, thank you so much for joining us from Paris.
JAKE SULLIVAN: Thanks for having me.
